The tale of Piper's adventures in the Forex world

Discussion in 'Development and Psychology' started by Piper, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Piper

    Piper Guest

    Hi guys!
    I’m Piper, and this is the story of my short journey in the trading world. 1st of all I'd like to apologize if my grammar is s****y, English isn't my native language, and I’m a bit upside down right now..
    I've first heard about Forex from my father, who went to a broker for an introductory curse (not a spelling mistake) that been a whole 3 times 3 hours "professional" seminar to convince people that all u need is a computer, a forex account and it'll start spew out money. What's weird that hes really an educated man(an electrical engineer),who hates gambling and doesn't have any bad habits(he doesn't even drinks coffee ffs). So he opened a 5k live account. Long story short , i still remember my Mother screaming three months later, after a busted account.. That's the encouraging family history of trading. :)
    So six years later a fed up with a boring and mentally not challenging work(what i can't leave right now because some unlucky family circumstances mixed with a bit of financial disaster.. Darn never let your sister to travel without health insurance) started to take interest in trading. I've purchased a paid course on stocks. It was a seminar of 24 hours, about an hour and half each lesson, and devoured it after work in about a week (my social life isn't what it used to be after i got to trading ;D). I've felt king of the world with all the knowledge that my "adored" and claimly successful teachers generously shared with me(they said something about 50% average per month in the vids with no evidence whatsoever)for a not so generous price tag. I started to paper trade with a simulator, loaded up some charts with some flashy bling indi's and felt like a total pro, lined em up with a lot of imaginary S/R and trend lines, untill it looked like I spider web and couldn’t really even see the chart,I didn’t really minded since the top secret properitary 5-6 lagging indis will tell me by agreeing confluence what the price will do. Noticed slowly that the proprietary indicators and the top secret strategy aren't really working .After two weeks of highly intensive demo trading, it seemed like i even have a bit of more success when i do exactly the contrary of what they've said.
    A bit fed up,on one of my surfing roams discovered babypips .At the front of the page i've red the words forex /currency trading, they've lit a bit of a red light, but told my self: well u got nothing to lose, except some time. Finished the school, which marvelously reminded me(1 on 1 identical) the course I’ve bought with my hard earned money, except the fx concepts and correlation.
    I've suddenly remembered the saying, that 95% of the traders failing. The conclusion was pretty obvious, well if everybody learning the same concepts, no wonder.. But decided not to give up. Chatted with some guys at BP where everybody was boldly claiming their great monthly 3 to 4% achievement, from what can't be done better(i respect their achievements, but not their attitude),then some cracks who claimed scalping of 3-4 pips with lot of lots and making 50 mill's in the process(yeah and now he's achieved hes money goals so started to pile up a ton of gold :eek:). Whatever. This was the day i've decided enough is enough, time to leave BP. Than already with the cursor on the close button of the browser, i've noticed some never seen thread before with protraders in its name at the newbie island section just jumped up.
    -Pro?!Here?!?!All i've met a bunch of crack's and blind leading the blind.
    Out of curiosity clicked the link, a bunch of dead links some guy named ICT.. Hmm been reading a post then two. Then found out about the What every aspiring forex trader wants to know.My eyes opened wide after the first few pages..Finally someone sounded professional ,with actual explanations why the things are working the way they are.. Even tough seems like he also had enough of the cracks around there and left.. Darn I’ve missed him by a month or two :( Removed all the vids :’( But lucky me, some guy named Clark posted them. I don't know you Clark, but a lot of kudos for upping the vids!!!

    A month and a half later after i've finished the two thread of about 2k pages and watched most of the vids.(yup all of them,s kipped work a few days to stay home, haven't slept some night's to read the threads and watch the vids :D ). And some threads with a lot of hate to ICT, who seemed to devote a lot of time and effort to teach people. Although I could understand their frustration, because you need great dedication and effort to understand he’s methods and practice a lot until you can execute them properly(great things aren’t going to happen without great effort!). But what I saw was a whole community getting together to bash somebody, and from what I suspect, because he ain’t ready to give trading signals(although in hes every review he gives away price points that even if you just actually focus and listen u can get some bomb entrys. Conclusion: they aren’t even ready try to understand what laid in front of them). This was the time I understood that I don’t want to be part of a community like that. I've decided to renew my decision to leave of BP forever and never go back .I’ll just use the Myfx EC. :)

    So i opened a demo account, and started to trade with my new "techno-fundal" super plan. Digged in COT reports, open interest until it finally clicked. Started to discover all the great concepts of range trading with htf analysis applied down. Fibs and pivots. Learned a lot about the market, how its working, and why its working the way it works(bonds yields futures and money in general) It worked great(It simply gives you a great feeling when a limit order triggered and it shoots out 50 pips in less then a minute).When it didn't, I usually found my mistakes by stuff that i've missed, or just sheer stupidity of acting on gut feelings on my part. Started to devour tech books by Larry Williams,Chris Lori, Mark Douglas and Laurence Connors, learned some more stuff, while applying them on the fly.
    In about 2 and a half moths i've tripled my 1st forex demo account(never busted a demo account untill now,yay). This was on tuesday,last week.
    By the deal i've made with my self,it was time to go live trading.

    This Monday ,my brand new shiny 2k live account waited for me to start. Started to trade. In the LO upped it by 4%. Same day finished with a drawdown of gross 5%(1.88k). Been a bit nervous. Specially because of ultra stupid mistakes(including things like i'm sitting with a printed out dollar chart right before my eyes,with a clearly marked red line i drew in my weekend analysis, of about 4 confluences ,and not paying attention to it, letting losses run, and cutting wins short). Went on to relax and blow some steam off.

    Tuesday got up. Finished my daily analysis.I did some really bad trading,with cutting winners very early(caught almost every damn swing point on a cable Z-day and cutted them off early at 1st sign of reversal :( )and took on bad on the fiber(really really bad),but finished with 15%gross (2.2k)The 90 pips i got out is great, no complaints here(if I would just let the price run and finish on limit instead of “managing” my position that would be 250+ pips).

    Yesterday i've got up,drank a cup of coffee,and turned the charts on.Had a big grin on my face.While i slept a cable sell limit got in,40 pips in the morning never feels bad :).With a preimise on my mind the trade after it rode the morning judas closed the short and went long at 1.50835 and I actively managed it to stoploss at 1.5092, on the last retracement of a 150 pips rally. Now that’s made me angry and annoyed. (It seems that my trades managing them selves better than I do :) ) Started a pretty “interactive” trading session out of fustration. It was a disaster as I’m reflecting on it now I’ve made every possible mistake, and violated almost every rule in my book. Could have made a lot, with a bit of discipline and patience. Instead I’ve entered an emotional roller coaster. A few times there were some prayers to all kinds of forex deities like:”Please God let me just get BE on this one!”Well they didn’t really listened..Yet finished the day with 2.25K balance and 2.35K equity, as it is right now. My myfxbook balance looks like Fibonacci retracements(at least in an uptrend for now). Still I’m pretty content with almost 20% gain although it could be much more.

    Suddenly recalled a sentence from the Trading in the Zone: You can be the best analyst in the world, and your trading will still suck.(That’s the book that I’ve throw aside in my infinite wisdom after the 1st chapter). At the evening I’ve decided that I’m pretty much done for the week, except managing my two open position trades. Started to read again the Zone book, and I’ll focus on developing more discipline and patience.(Maybe I’ll sign up to yoga or something). :)
    I really like this site, the 1st article that focuses on trading psychology is one of the best I saw about the topic! Keep up the great work! ;)

    And of course a big thanks goes to the following people for greatly contributing to my development as a novice trader:
    Larry Williams,
    Chris Lori,
    Laurence Connors,
    John Murphy,
    Mark Douglas,
    Jack for the great article on the front page
    And last but definitely the most:
    Mr. ICT Michael "Yoda" Huddlestone
    Cheers,
    Piper
     
  2. jack

    jack Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,427
    Hi Piper,

    Firstly, welcome to the forum! And thank you for posting your story.

    You've actually brought up a number of human nature / trading psychology examples in your story, for instance:

    1 - Trading seminars promising "easy" riches sure give this industry a bad name (and it's in every trading market, not just stocks and forex.) It's really hard to find paid resources that are worth the money. A lot of these companies providing education seminars for high fees are taking advantage of people's greed and bias toward positive thinking.

    I actually have a rule when it comes to reading books or course material on trading: If the title, slogan, or sales material for the book/course includes any 'get rich quick' remarks, I avoid it at all costs (even if it's free, since the information is likely poison to my mind.)

    2 - I don't doubt your father was a bright individual, as you mentioned he was an engineer...though, would it surprise you to hear that doctors, lawyers, and engineers can have a much harder time trading for themselves than most other professions?

    Academically inclined professions tend to train people's minds to expect results ad a product of their direct work. Normally it's a good thing that traders put in effort and work toward learning the markets, but a big component of trading is accepting when you're wrong, and unlike putting numbers into a physics equation or proving legal precedent in a court case, the results of a trade setup are not going to be consistent every time you take it. It's like these types of professions make breaking through the 'ego' barrier as a trader harder to do.

    That being said, quantitative analysis firms still like hiring engineers. They just pair the engineers off with an experienced trader to work on strategies so the trader can help keep expectations in line and make sure the strategy executes well. And of course there's plenty decent lawyer/doctor-traders out there. . it's not a hard rule that these professions outright fail at trading, I'm just pointing out that they have a bit harder of a time learning to trade well and consistently given their life experiences.

    3 - When you mentioned "95% lose money" and it might be because they are all learning the same stuff. There's a bit of truth to that, a lot of concepts and strategies presented online are very flawed from the risk/reward point of view...but you'd be surprised how much some of the more basic strategies common around the net combined with a bit of discretion (ie, filtering out what signals not to take for reasons outside the basic strategy) are able to work reasonably well (not the best edges in the world, but potential for profit exists for sure even using a basic trend following approach for instance.)

    The human element is a big part of why these people fail; emotions mucking up their trading plan, or not having a trading plan since they 'feel' smarter than the rest, combined with being on their own as retail traders and having an insane amount of leverage available to them (all the rope they need to hang themselves,) ...it's just a combination that leaves busted out accounts littered all over the net on forums like BP.

    A good thing though: It sounds like you found your edge (from the works and people you mentioned) and you are beginning to understand yourself well enough to know your comfort zone and to know the humility needed to operate smoothly in the markets. That's awesome! Most people struggle just to get to that stage. :)

    So yes, thanks for sharing and glad to welcome you to the forum. Feel free to post around and enjoy yourself.

    Cheers!


    PS:
    That would be me. :p
     
  3. Piper

    Piper Guest

    Hello Jack!
    Thank you very much for the warm welcoming..
    And yes,i agree with everything that you've wrote in your post..
    But to refer to point 3.
    I'm not discarding or
    disregarding the common techniques,nor the people who use them.Everybody should trade with a style that fits hes needs and goals( or shouldn't trade for that matter :) )I have utter respect any achievement with a + before it.I'm also respecting every loss,if the individual who made that loss,have enough clarity to admit a mistake,and learn exactly what caused the slip,so it'll become a valuable experience.I love the euphoric feeling of a winning trade,but learning much more from my losses.. :)
    Anyways,got off track for a bit. What i was saying that i don't have a problem with common knowledge,and trading,except the people with know it all attitude,that they are the best,and it can't be done any better.And they even trying to discourage everyone else what is actually pretty harmful with my opinion,especially for novice traders.

    I stand corrected,fixed it :D
     
  4. Tansen

    Tansen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    890
    I like your story and your enthusiasm. Now with that said I'd like to advise you to the caution of over trading. I did it as well and it was the way Clark taught me, however I lacked the control he has when it comes to intra-day. He analysed every day but he didn't trade every day.

    Sometimes, its the individual that matters and I believe a key note that Clark was trying to pass to me was that there is tons of opportunities in the market capitalize on it. Now he didn't say try and capitalize on all of them which is probably the early path everyone agrees with.

    Remember it's never about dollar amount, it's about risk adjusted returns, but even with that said it's the process and the motions of accurately understanding yourself and trading well. A legendary trader at my office told me, "Trading well is the key and money is the by product of trading well".

    It's good that your up and its a fantastic feeling but don't forget your discipline because that can be easily over looked at times as "buffer cash" and realistically there is no such thing as buffer cash.

    P.S I still seed that video list lol.
     
  5. Piper

    Piper Guest

    Hi Tansen!
    Yes..I've noticed this issue.It's pretty drawing in general.I'll just think for a day or two exactly how to resolve this issue of mine.
    I don't really have any objectives at all.In my opinion (and by my trading plan) if a setup is strong enough i can take it if i want,the stronger,i can risk more(2%max). That is going to stay,since i don't think that's a good idea to torture yourself with trades that you can't take if you have fulfilled some objective,and on the contrary,starting to take stupid setups to fulfill some goals you just created for yourself,and to lose.And I think I'm starting to understand the issue.Most of us want to arrive to a financial freedom from pretty small accounts we're opened.And we all want to get there as fast as possible of course.So i guess if would have had a 30k account that i would trade,and would get a similar result of 25% for a month,what would be pretty much enough for me to live off and to let about 40-50% to compound,I'm sure that i wouldn't be at a rush at all,nor would stress my self.And since we all have our reasons to arrive to this style of trading(i don't think that rich people would try something like that,except trader families) and for most of us, i think,its profit and freedom.And of course as soon as humanly possible.Its kind of a catch 22. And there's obliviously only one solution,that you can take to not ruin yourself and your account totally by over trading stress.Its patience.

    Cheers,
    Piper

    P.S.:
    Kudos for you still sharing! ;D
    Kudos for me too!
     
  6. jack

    jack Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,427
    That right there, trying to turn a small account into something huge overnight through the inappropriate use of leverage and risk, is probably the number 1 reason why retail forex traders fail and wash out.

    It's hard for new traders to avoid this mentality when they see the 'exceptions' or 'outliers' that display such astronomical gains to the world.

    Or, worse yet, they see a forex demo contest where the winner made 3,000%+ in one month and they just focus on how much the winner was able to return instead of the 4000+ other accounts in the demo contest that busted out trying to do the same.... or the new trader forgets that demo contests aren't real money and underestimates the psychological impact of trading real dollars live.
     
  7. Piper

    Piper Guest

    Yes...And its so sad..
    And what's worse I have to admit i'm guilty of that too.In about two and a half weeks worked up my account about 55% equity. My greedy side started shush in my ears that if i'm that good,what does it matters to increase leverage for one or two trades,and maybe start full time much sooner?
    Well Stupidly i took a 5% risk trade(it seemed like a very solid setup..well there's no such thing :) ).It went a bit against me,i got scared,and moved my s/l 10 points farther to search for defense by some pivot.Still moved against me.No matter i'll just average it out and get a blended price .Very bright indeed.The numbers grew enormous by percentage of my tiny account(3k at that time). Moved S/L's Hedged it,tryed to manage it out,and made a lot of unsuccessful efforts to get myself out of that.Scaled out losing position a bit here and there.Long story short,i managed to sell an ITL (at least not an LTL :)) ). And lost on that trade about 5k.Ate up all my profits from other successful trades (about 4k+). Now with a 50% net draw down(70% absolute) (at 1K),instead of being with around 250% net gain around(6-7K). For me,the lesson learned about over leveraging.And stupidly risking too much.The really scary part is that its all started as a simple ordinary trade.And then..Well..
     
  8. Skipper

    Skipper Demo trader - Learning everyday

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    Hello Piper,

    and thank you for your open and transparent story. It was very important to here a story like this.

    In some way you lay out some of the fears and hopes I have when going live. I have made a deal with my self (and my wife) that I'm only going live when “I know” I'm ready for it. So I trust what ICT has said and I'm going to learn this with time... until one day:) Anyway, I have a position open at the moment where I'm not losing any money (though it will be part of the game, I know.) and that is one thing I try to keep in my mind.

    I wish you all the best and good trading.
     
  9. jack

    jack Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    That's a good approach. And yes, you will learn with time so long as you keep up the effort. :)
     
  10. Piper

    Piper Guest

    Thank you for the kind words,i'm happy that you enjoyed the story.

    What can i say,luckily you have your wife,what is a very good thing for trading.You have somebody to hold you accountable for your actions.So probably you wont be as harsh as i was in the beginning.Wish i had some more restraints lol.Trust me,you will know,altough sometimes doubt plagues the mind,i'm still sometimes wondering if i haven't gone live too soon.Well.Time will tell.

    GLGT!
    Cheers,
    Piper
     

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