Bitcoin

rod178

Well-Known Member
The current price of Bitcoin has plunged to USD135, recent low less than USD112. High was over USD1200.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/23/mt-gox-resigns-from-bitcoin-foundations-board-of-directors/

Interesting Bitcoin mining articles to the right in link.

Seems that the party may be over.
 

Tansen

Well-Known Member
Yeah, what's it cost you to run your computer pointed at mining that or an Altcoin to BTC?

If you leave your computer on all day any ways just point and mine a bit, you never know.

I have mine pointed at some altcoins I paid for a computer with it so now it's just for fun.
 

Ramy3

May the pips be with you!
And she goes bust.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gT6Ry6LOE-q-HligsIOUKiMmzY6w?docId=4ab8936b-3f68-4f7e-a826-e719b8f790cd

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/major-bitcoin-exchange-said-to-be-insolvent-after-alleged-theft-of-currency/2014/02/25/226f6226-9e71-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

Stick to "WHAT IS REAL".
 

rod178

Well-Known Member
sqa said:
Or a good Long opportunity once the exchanges start working again.
Never been much into falling knives

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2014/02/20/why-bitcoins-dont-add-up-to-money/

Also - the value of Bitcoin varies "dramatically" between exchanges, unlike gold, silver, USD and other 'forms of money'.

Apparently there is no arbitrage opportunity to flatten out the discrepancies.

Hence, for that reason alone, I cannot regard it as money.
 

jack

Administrator
Staff member
rod178 said:
Never been much into falling knives

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2014/02/20/why-bitcoins-dont-add-up-to-money/

Also - the value of Bitcoin varies "dramatically" between exchanges, unlike gold, silver, USD and other 'forms of money'.

Apparently there is no arbitrage opportunity to flatten out the discrepancies.

Hence, for that reason alone, I cannot regard it as money.
That's actually the part I find the most interesting.

The different exchange rates for bitcoin are a great--and practical--example of conditions and pricing premiums (risk, time value of money, etc..) affecting a product/security.

Bitcoin is fungible between exchanges. There is arb opportunities that arise between exchange, but it isn't as cut and dry as buying at one place and selling at another...

The price on MtGox (for example) used to trade higher than most other exchanges thanks to the cost of getting money out and the time it took to process a fiat money transfer back to your bank.

Then later on, the price crashed on MtGox thanks to people not being able to transfer out anything at all (bitcoin or fiat,) and finally, price crashed even lower still thanks to the rumors the place was insolvent (proven true.)
 

rod178

Well-Known Member
Ramy3 said:
Hope it helps.......
lol. Some are also in the same boat with CFD Brokers.

The real issue with Bitcoin, I have always thought, is that of 'Beneficial Ownership'.

Having an entity such as Mt Gox holding one's Bitcoins on what amounted to trust is very poor risk management.

The same issue is there with CFD Brokers, despie the so called segregated accounts, although it can be minimised by using maximum leverage, whilst managing that leverage with good risk management.. Having excessive funds sitting with any CFD Broker is also exposing one to excessive risk.

=============================================
more on Bitcoin

A fatal blow to bitcoin?
Daniel Palmer26 Feb, 8:33 AM
TechnologyMarketsCurrency

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/2/26/technology/fatal-blow-bitcoin?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=594364&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

Cryptocurrency bitcoin has been touted as the ‘world’s safest currency’ by its large band of supporters. Overnight, that illusion was shattered, as its former leading exchange – Mt Gox – went offline, seemingly never to return given reports of a sizeable theft and possible insolvency.

The news has the potential to bring the digital currency to its knees.

Mt Gox – a service which matches buyers and sellers like any normal exchange and holds bitcoins on behalf of investors – has long been the pre-eminent bitcoin exchange, but problems recently began surfacing as denial-of-service attacks led it to halt withdrawals.

It has now all but shut down its site, leaving only a vague message that reads:

“In light of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.”

It has also deleted all of its prior messages on microblogging site Twitter and abandoned its head office in Tokyo as users of the site ponder where their money has gone.

While bitcoin users have many alternative exchanges to buy and sell the currency, the Mt Gox issues show the downside of a lack of scrutiny from financial regulators.

Still, supporters of the currency insist bitcoin is fine; it was merely the exchange that was problematic. But the empty shell that is now the Mt Gox website will erode trust. And with it over $300 million worth of bitcoins may have been lost as speculation mounts of the theft of 740,000 bitcoins.

The valuation of those lost bitcoins is dropping fast, with the digital currency falling 20 per cent to below $US500. When I last wrote about it at the end of November it was seen surging past the $1000 mark for the first time amid a frenzy of activity.

The wild gyrations in value over the past 12 months are perhaps mere teething problems, but it doesn’t bode well for a secure store of value. After all, how many currencies move 20 per cent in a month, let alone 20 per cent in a day?

Regulators in Mt Gox’s base of Japan, meanwhile, are seemingly indifferent to the news. The Financial Services Agency in the Asian nation summed up the major problem with bitcoin: it actually isn’t a cash substitute as its use as a store of value and medium of exchange is, at best, trivial.

"Bitcoin is not a currency; it is an alternative to currencies, like gold," a spokesperson for the Financial Services Agency declared.

"We are only responsible for currencies and therefore bitcoin is not subject to our regulatory oversight."

Bitcoin, which has no owner or manager, has been shrouded in mystery since its inception and the latest debacle will stir suspicion that some are cleaning up at other people’s expense. But other leading exchanges have launched an offensive; adamant a few bad eggs have merely tainted what is the future for global finance.

"This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt Gox was the result of one company's actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry," the companies – BTC China, Coinbase, Bitstamp, Kraken, Blockchain and Circle – contended.

It was a similar sentiment echoed by one of bitcoin’s most prominent investors Marc Andreessen, a Silicon Valley investor who has revelled in early investments in Facebook, Skype and Twitter, who came out strongly in the cryptocurrency’s defence.

“(The) market price of (bitcoin) dropped going into Mt Gox shutdown, and then has risen since. This is exactly what one would predict for a normally functioning financial market without systemic risk,” he told his followers on Twitter.

“Mt Gox had to die for bitcoin to thrive. Its former role from early bitcoin days has been supplanted by better, stronger entities.”

Andreessen, a major investor in Mt Gox rival Coinstamp, appears overly optimistic in downplaying the situation.

After all, confidence and faith are all a currency has to determine its value and while cryptocurrency may be the way of the future, the big question is: can we trust bitcoin anymore?

Unless there is proper oversight, greater transparency and a stabilisation of its price, the answer is a blatant no.
 

Tansen

Well-Known Member
sqa said:
It's all about the Dogecoin now! >:D
Its funny I have holdings in IFC (InfiniteCoin) and right now according to Cryptsy it's worth $0.0000728 per coin. I visited the dev site for IFC because I was curious to see if they had any other services offered such as a store accepting IFC etc and I noticed they had a shoutbox and reading the comments of people speaking in there made my mind rot. ALL OF THEM were saying BY THE END OF NEXT YEAR IFC WILL BE $1 and in 5 years $5 and in 10 years $10.

I made a comment towards pump and dumps and that unless the are able to stabilize via regulation or make increased services available to accept the coin where... blah blah blah you know the speel. A day later an asian miner went ballistic towards my comment saying that China's exchange will be big this will make us rich (Reitterating the price expectancy as referenced above) and that BTC is Gold, LTC is Silver, LTC is Copper.

A friend of mine made a comment to me regarding a mutual friend of ours when he wanted to get into trading futures. He said, "P can't do it, he has a poor man's mindset." I don't use that reference often but in this case I'd like to say those people have a poor man's mindset. The degree of my facepalm has left a hand groove on my face.
 

sqa

Village Scribe
I actually own none of them and, when Bitcoin hit 1200, I was actually wondering how to Short it. (I can see BitCoin having some staying power, but it was a pretty obvious Bubble) But I wouldn't mind "owning" one of them, where I could buy, say, 1,000,000 of them for $10USD. Having "1 MILLION COINS!" would be just fun for kicks.
 

Tansen

Well-Known Member
sqa said:
I actually own none of them and, when Bitcoin hit 1200, I was actually wondering how to Short it. (I can see BitCoin having some staying power, but it was a pretty obvious Bubble) But I wouldn't mind "owning" one of them, where I could buy, say, 1,000,000 of them for $10USD. Having "1 MILLION COINS!" would be just fun for kicks.
Yeah I'm not proactively mining as much as I did before. I ended up buying a junker computer with a GFX card being fully paid for before shit hit the fan and I had maybe 20 buck in MTgox but I got what I wanted in the end and whatever altcoin I am holding or mining now is just there for show.
 

jack

Administrator
Staff member
Tansen said:
Yeah I'm not proactively mining as much as I did before. I ended up buying a junker computer with a GFX card being fully paid for before shit hit the fan and I had maybe 20 buck in MTgox but I got what I wanted in the end and whatever altcoin I am holding or mining now is just there for show.
Just keep sicking it on the latest fad-pump-n-dump crypto-currency... hit it hard when the difficulty to mine is low, and then move on to the next. If that particular one takes off in the future, you'll have a bunch of coins you mined cheaply. >:D
 

rod178

Well-Known Member
A blessing in disguise for Bitcoin?
Supratim Adhikari10 hours ago 2
TechnologyMarkets
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/2/28/technology/blessing-disguise-bitcoin?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=596730&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

Major bitcoin exchange Mt Gox’s current -- perhaps terminal -- ailment has put the virtual currency under pressure, but does it spell doom for Bitcoin or is this the start of something beautiful?

Just where Bitcoin fits into the global currency markets has been subject to much conjecture and the collapse of Mt Gox is the latest bit of bad news to send the crypto-currency’s value into a tailspin.

That’s not exactly a new feeling for Bitcoin believers because oscillating wildly is what Bitcoin does best; and the main reason for that is that we still haven’t figured out how to define bitcoin’s purpose.

On one hand, Bitcoin is gaining momentum as virtual cash but it also retains all the allure as a means of investment. So is it cash or is it gold? Surely it can’t be both.

Cracking this code is crucial to Bitcoin’s future and far from being a death knell for the crypto-currency Mt Gox’s travails could be the catalyst to securing its future.

Regulators bay for blood

The Mt Gox fiasco has galvanised the regulators but the knives have been out for a while.

Earlier this year, New York's financial regulator revealed new details on how the state intends to get virtual currencies to play by the rules -- an endeavour designed to weed out the volatility associated with crypto-currencies and the operators that have gleefully utilised the relative anonymity that Bitcoin provides.

Normally, any talk of regulatory oversight sends Bitcoin prices tumbling -- but that’s not quite the case this time around.

After dropping more than $100 as Mt Gox’s problems came to the fore, the crypto-currency is actually starting to rebound.

There’s that volatility again -- but the good news is that the growing pains and the repeated boom and bust cycles can be mitigated, provided regulators understand the decentralised peer-to-peer nature of the virtual currency.

The big risk is that an overarching emphasis on money laundering and criminal activity could be counterproductive.

As Ariel Deschapell points out in this spirited post on Coindesk, regulators need to be aware of their limitations when it comes to enforcement. Pushing bitcoin further into the dark web doesn’t help anyone.

Virtual currencies are here to stay

But rather than rail against the heavy hand of regulation, Bitcoin enthusiasts are clamouring for more regulatory oversight. Why? Because crypto-currencies are more mainstream than we would like to imagine and the demise of an online exchange just isn’t going to make or break bitcoin. It might have done a couple of years ago, but not anymore.

Not when more merchants are signing up to accept bitcoin payments and the veneer of subversion cherished by libertarian geeks is giving way to more start-ups and companies looking to implement virtual currencies into their business models.

Bitcoin’s proponents say that a lot of these developments are happening under the purview of seasoned venture capitalists and financial experts.

University of Western Australia's David Glance says that the demise of Mt Gox is a necessary step in removing the so-called amateur operators out of the game and strong regulation might actually be the driver for more conventional financial businesses to jump into the crypto-currency market.

“There’s no way in the world crypto-currencies are going away,” Glance says.

The current regulatory regime might only just be waking up to the implications of virtual currencies, but it’s a necessary step in giving mainstream users the security they crave
 

sqa

Village Scribe
One of the interesting bits about Crypto Currencies is that there has been, over the years, a lot of study of "why" currencies inflate & crash. There were a number of local "scripts" during the US Great Depression that were fodder for academic study. So for as much as these are "fake" currencies, they have a lot better understanding of how to make them more functional.

There's also something that should probably be said: there is always a "shadow economy" in every society. Some are pretty small (mostly the illegal drug trade and person-to-person selling), while others are quite big. (One study put Spain's at 24% in 2012, with the rest of Europe over 10% each) Crypto Currencies allow of the monetization of the international or non-physical location versions.

That's the rub. These currencies have a utility that isn't going away. And that wasn't true until the World-wide rise of smart phones. Now they have a point-to-point transaction ability, a market which they can represent and "general" anonymity. They're here to stay. Granted, I wouldn't "invest" in them. Though mining one of the newer ones for a while doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
 

SLT

Official GDayFX.com Rep
When all the big banks fail, digital will be it.
eliminating all the bullshit, banks and governments have created.
Retiring will become more simple.
A lot has to happen, before the fact though, and its not going to be pretty...
Doomsday is not on many peoples radar, low volume?
Digital could replace all cash and gold

Rod states this "University of Western Australia's David Glance says that the demise of Mt Gox is a necessary step in removing the so-called amateur operators out of the game and strong regulation might actually be the driver for more conventional financial businesses to jump into the crypto-currency market."
sound like a correction in value to me
 

Top