Average time to be profitable using ICT's FX education series

SLT

Official GDayFX.com Rep
Well, obviously the time it takes an individual to possibly become profitable trading the fx market, will vary
I my self have studied other areas other than Michaels work, though it has been he's work i have studied the most, as it suits.
On a level of time it takes to advance, using he's concepts, i look at it like this...
Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced - Pro
For me it has been about 1 year for each and i have not been consistent until i reached advanced this year... 2015
I have said it before and i will say it again, what ever educational material you use, have a plan for the time it takes, to be apart
of the duration required to learn how to trade or teach yourself how to trade. Yep, its going back to school
I took two years off work, to start learning, now that's not an easy thing to do! I had to re structure my life, before i even began to study properly. In the third year i started working again part time, though still studying/trading while i worked.
You don't need money to trade the markets, you need money to survive on, while you study
 

Decoherence

Well-Known Member
I finished Babypips in March 2014, then started the Scout Sniper series in June 2014.

Since then I've watched and tried to take notes on all the series, currently up to MM7. After one year I'd say I'm on the cusp of going from beginner to intermediate, as I can now somewhat imagine myself as the bank attempting to take out retail.

At first I gave myself 10 years so as to not succumb to greed/desperation and to not become overwhelmed and discouraged. After some experience, I'm guessing it will take another 2-3 years before I am consistent. I plan on putting some money in a live account in 2016. Some people made me rush my plans, showing daily profits that were kind of mind blowing... and it almost ruined me a month or two ago. I had a long term plan for a reason, and one of the best things I've done is to go back and stick with it.

edit: Don't worry Piper, I won't limit myself, but I need to take this at the proper pace ;)
 

d16y

Well-Known Member
Took me about 5 years to get profitable in writing options.

Planning for ICT's teachings 1-3 years. I will give it 10 years though if I have to. However it does not mean I will limit myself and not study some other method.
 

sqa

Village Scribe
It's going to be less "Time Duration" and more "Hours Spent".

Then there's the question: Have you started Fresh in all Trading? Or are you experienced in Trading already? It takes anywhere from 500 to 1000 hours to learn to "Trade", in general. ICT Market Reading and Analysis concepts are a minimum of another 1000 hours.

2080 hours is a "full time job" for one year. And that's just the "general" case. There's going to be a lot of other hurdles (mostly between your ears) more than the concepts themselves. 2-3 years should be your time horizon with the work, unless you're in a place to devote 6-10 hours a day to the work. But there are few that get that luxury.

Plus, you need to eventually "click" with a Time Frame and Entry/Exit types that you can see. Your "Edge", as others would put it.
 

Decoherence

Well-Known Member
sqa said:
It's going to be less "Time Duration" and more "Hours Spent".

Then there's the question: Have you started Fresh in all Trading? Or are you experienced in Trading already? It takes anywhere from 500 to 1000 hours to learn to "Trade", in general. ICT Market Reading and Analysis concepts are a minimum of another 1000 hours.

2080 hours is a "full time job" for one year. And that's just the "general" case. There's going to be a lot of other hurdles (mostly between your ears) more than the concepts themselves.
Interesting to put some actual numbers to it. I'm guessing 2 hours a day, probably 15 days a month to be conservative, 10 out of the last 12 months is 300 hours clocked here.
 

the golden gun

RINSE & REPEAT
Profitable... pretty vague criteria

How Profitable?
For how long?
On what account size?

I mean there's the guy who made 20% per month for the last 3 months on his $1500 account, and would probably describe himself as "profitable" on forums like these.

Then there's the guy that averaged 5.5% per month over the last 3 years, on a ~$400,000 account. Now that's a profitable trader too.

There's just something more legit about having a multi-year track record of profits on a large account, that really trumps anything retailers can muster up. So the question "how long until..." is hard to answer because the longer the track record, the more "valid" the results.
 

d16y

Well-Known Member
the golden gun said:
Profitable... pretty vague criteria

How Profitable?
For how long?
On what account size?

I mean there's the guy who made 20% per month for the last 3 months on his $1500 account, and would probably describe himself as "profitable" on forums like these.

Then there's the guy that averaged 5.5% per month over the last 3 years, on a ~$400,000 account. Now that's a profitable trader too.

There's just something more legit about having a multi-year track record of profits on a large account, that really trumps anything retailers can muster up. So the question "how long until..." is hard to answer because the longer the track record, the more "valid" the results.
Good question, I'd say profitable is an individual thing.

To someone raising an affluent middle class family probably a yearly gain of $80k+ on a few hundred K account is profitable for him/her.

To an accomplished surgeon who dosn't want to continue surgeries probably going to need $500k+ PA to make this a profitable venture. To the same surgeon who is only looking to get a little bit extra to supplement his income with little time spent in the markets for extra toys/charity a net gain of $100k is most likely deemed profitable.

To a teenager who was blessed with $10k by their parents a return of $2-3k PA is very profitable.
 

sqa

Village Scribe
Decoherence said:
Interesting to put some actual numbers to it. I'm guessing 2 hours a day, probably 15 days a month to be conservative, 10 out of the last 12 months is 300 hours clocked here.
The numbers aren't just pulled out of thin air. There's been a lot of study about the time it takes to truly get good at things, which is why I put things in hours. (See Malcolm Gladwell's discussion of 10,000 hours to be a true expert) But a lot of it comes from chatting with other traders, in bits and pieces, and just being good at keeping track of numbers. Far too often 9 or 12 months come up in the context of learning. But normally as phases. This is a very common thing in with most Skills. You tend to get basic competence around 1000 hours or 6 months of experience (if full time).

At the same time, there's also a need to take into account the quality, amount in and amount "around" the work. With trading, you can be thinking about it a lot more than you're doing it, if you're working another job. I could very easily see a trader saying it took them 500 trades to "really get it". It's all in the same ballpark. 18-24 months is going to be the minimum for most of the population, before other considerations.

Edit:

Also, keep in mind the "Everyone wants to have written a book; only a writer wants to write a book" effect. Everyone wants the money, they don't want the work.
 
10,000 hours seems about right after all the material has been released... If you've been following him over the years it's probably between 15,000-25,000. I'm actually more jealous of the people starting to learn his material now rather then being there from the start, being drug through the coals with incomplete information.
 

SLT

Official GDayFX.com Rep
The way i interpret the learning process into trading is something like this...
Time is relevant
Long term knowledge put into short term trading, is key
Gelling the conceptual knowledge into a trading process or plan is important, while still studying price, fine tuning the process as a whole
We can see all the concepts at different times of the day or week, unfold
Using the right tool at the right time, is a skill in its self, using the right time frames for each.
Same tools apply on higher and lower time frames, when these tools come together, you might call that confluence. When two different tools come together at the same time, that is also confluence.
Michael once said, look for confluences, how would he do that? He uses the concepts and the tools as one, to find them. Gel the process, put the knowledge to work, do the work on the charts, learn to see what it is your looking for, using the time you have. The time/hours it takes to put it all together into a profitable trading process, will vary for the individual. I personally planned my time to learn, a bit like planning to take a holiday.... but it ain't no holiday Lol
I have marked my levels this weekend, for next week, that is part of the process and 1 common tool already used, and that is called a horizontal line
 

Golden Bull

We got cookies
Back in the days?3-4 mnts with a full time job. But i've been lucky since i had an edge from the mindset perspective(hella good poker player) ahh yea, and there was much less stuff. S/r, htf market flow, time of day. Always simplify. No magic to it.

-P
 

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