Supply And Demand

[TheInnerCircleTrader]

1st ICT Turtlesoup is Linda Raschke's tourtlesoup.

I feel it is important to note I never claim or claimed this pattern as my own. When I mention it, 90% of the time, I reference the source I learned it from - Linda via Street Smarts. [Romans 13:7]

1st ICT orderblock is Sam Seidens s/d(1st one takes it all)

::Annoying Buzzer Sound:: I assure you that the "OrderBlock" is not Sam's nor is it a derivative of his materials. Respectfully, might I add when I released it I drew many specifics to it's use. When I was questioned about it's - first glance - resemblance of "Supply & Demand" and that of Sam's wares... I corrected folks.

Now for the record... I was doing this well before Sam opened up shop or released his "S&D Zones" or worked via Trade Academy. While Sam states he believes he is the author of these "zones", let me correct the thread in some major bullet-points.

I began my online adventures in 1998 on AOL - America Online. I drew a rather large following and I as a result made acquaintances in the Institutional World. The level of precision I use and teach is no where... not sold, shared or duplicated. Why? Those who know it on the Institutional side are greedy and you basically go through a sworn to secrecy pact and I'm not one who likes to "follow" rules.

I worked with large Institutional Trading firms and yes I was courted to be a Fund Manager. I managed funds for one of the richest families in North America. It was stressful and I quickly realized I could do better on my own with no stress. I left the show and it came with a great deal of resentment by my suitors. What I learned isn't in books or online academies or forums. What I share is that of the Market Makers and Institutional Traders on the bank level both small and large.

Now back to Sam - It is quite easy to see what I share is in fact not Sam's S&D Zones. I explained after reading and viewing his materials online - Sam is looking at a small piece of the puzzle and leaves a lot out - which I assume is only by ignorance. The notion a Zone has to be fresh or never cut through candles is a major flaw and short coming in his material. The Markets are very generic and large blocks of liquidity will rest on the outer scope of the barriers Sam's method has you living in. At best his materials will put some setups in your trading... even if it is not 100% aligned with the Major Players behind price moves.

Sam at best gives you areas to look at... I presented precise levels and prices Price moves will form and that is light years from Sam or anyone else in the teaching business. I say this as a fact and includes my own Mentors. You have had the luxury of seeing what real Institutional Bank Traders and their applications can do in your development and why most fail. I pulled back the curtain on how they fleece Funds, large speculators and still maintain a business model that appears to everyone looking as a "free market"... when it is far from that at all.

In conclusion... my Orderblock concept is far beyond the scope of Sam's best and delivers exactly what order flow is likely to do as a result and not leave a wide "zone" to hope you find a good entry in. There is a major distinction from my work and that of everyone on the teaching routine... this includes Chris Lori, Larry Williams, Linda Rashke and whoever you feel like adding to the list. My Orderblock is derived from the understanding I gleaned from real Institutional Traders... not somebody who ran tickets for a Trading firm or has a cash account with a Bank and trades Forex. Trust me, I piss off those who helped create me... but I remain true and at least state I learned it from "them" and not claim I birthed it or Fathered the idea or founded it's application. The things I have claimed authorship of are those things everyone knows about me.

Hopefully, this clears the air on this idea of my idea of orderblocks being anything related to in any scope to that of Sam Seiden or any other "Supply & Demand" coach or writer. I've been around before these cats and roar louder because of it. Hail to the King baby...

 

[sqa]

And that's why I spend so much time attempting to absorb all of ICT's thinking.

Also interesting to note that I believe this is the first time ICT has mentioned working for a "Family Office" after wrapping up his AOL days. He'd mentioned working for a Firm for a few years, but this was a new information piece. And it also points to a lack of vetting on the part of the people that brought him in. ICT isn't much of a conformist. ;D

 

[Kuzia]

I pulled back the curtain on how they fleece Funds, large speculators and still maintain a business model that appears to everyone looking as a "free market"... when it is far from that at all.

That's why I'm just laughing from people who use indicators and other EA's in their trading )

 

[Piper]

That's why I'm just laughing from people who use indicators and other EA's in their trading )

What i wrote, and the system that i made with one indi worx. What you do and why you think it, is your personal business. If you can back it with FACTS then pls post them. Stop minitrolling. Either put the f*ck up or stfu. (pictured or explained examples pls)

If you discard a tool without being to able to utilize and understand it fully,and prove the underlying reasons of that tool faulty,then you have no clue what you're talking about.

Exactly goes to trolls like you.

 

[TheInnerCircleTrader]

Piper that was a general and wide brushed response and not intended to jab you or your opinions. I have had many instances where a little misinformation gets ran with and a "developing story" unfolds that is far from truth.

Everyone has an opinion and it shouldn't be attacked or felt the need to defend. If something doesn't jive with a person... handle it responsibly. I'm sure in a pool or people there would be TeamICT and TeamSam and TeamDrSues... none of that matters.

It's what we glean usable over the development and how we own it individually as a Trader. That's all that matters in the end.

Hope you weren't taking that post personal.

 

[Piper]

Not at all, but what i was stating in the thread, that s/r lines are depleted liquidity pockets of the past, so no reason to really consider them. I assure you that i'm not part of team Sam. But still,the real explanations of the stuff that i do think is coming after the 1st one in each of those posts,and remained unaddressed. Since i'm always looking to learn something i think it would be really educational for everybody here if you would address those.

 

[TheInnerCircleTrader]

Dear Michael.

I do agree with most of the things you wrote and will post my view about the parts that i do not. However, you did not addressed the whole point of why s/r's are useless.
Happy B-day btw.

I am of the opinion Support and Resistance is useful. Otherwise, I would have made the case for it not being so. 99.9% of my material is based on it's application.

True many apply a so simple approach mentality to S&R and discover it requires more than a simple line here and there. This is a reoccurring stumbling stone even for my subscribers. You have to take everything in context and it is a combination of key components that result in optimal results.

The idea of Support is different to each of us. I can look at a chart and arrive at a level I am more interested in Trading than you or the next guy/gal. Why is that? Each of us have different goals and Trade parameters we Trade with and within.

The Support level I see might only be a valid Resistance another Trader is waiting on to short at down the road. I think it is a bit myopic to make a blanket statement that S&R is useless. When in reality everything is useless when viewed out of context.

Consider driving a nail with a screwdriver... however the same larger goal of tacking the nail is meant to do and only having the scope of understanding of a screwdriver... a modest change in application can be optimal. Use a screw!

However when we look at Price and study where it left with strong conviction or speed... this tells us something "Fundamentally" is underway. How that event fits in the larger market is crucial. It determines if the level trading right now is a speedbump in a larger move or a complete roadblock and reversing course is likely.

I look for Support levels by higher timeframes and understand those levels - if valid shouldn't be revisited in ideal bullish conditions. However, inside the smaller retracements orderblocks will form that are the basis for new setups for trading in the direction set by the larger support level.

The contrast is made in Resistance conditions and shorting. It is very useful when properly applied and used in conjunction with other solid concepts.

 

[jack]

I'm sure in a pool or people there would be TeamICT and TeamSam and TeamDrSues... none of that matters.

:thumbsup:

Agreed; it doesn't matter. I can't stand the 'us vs them' clique mentality. Whenever I get roped into some 'pick a side' fight (over things like trading ideology, where both sides are useful to people, for example) I tend to just get turned off of both groups of people.

There's a few things I'll strongly speak out against, but they will be the subjects or ideologies that I know, for sure, are toxic (ie, martingale.) However, if the subjects both have their merits and it's really just down to personal preference.. then non-constructive bickering heard between camps only serves to annoy me.

 

[Piper]

I look for Support levels by higher timeframes and understand those levels - if valid shouldn't be revisited in ideal bullish conditions.

The fresh s/rs that haven't been touched will turn/drop price. the retouched/sliced ones will probably not,since no liquidity left.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I cut this out specifically because this applies directly to this thread. The rest is more about applying to the methodology you use. Tnx for contributing from your understandings.

Cheers,
-P

 

[TheInnerCircleTrader]

My pleasure

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I cut this out specifically because this applies directly to this thread. The rest is more about applying to the methodology you use. Tnx for contributing from your understandings.

Cheers,
-P

 

[Piper]

But anyways,those who are saying that s/d is crap. ICT himself is stating that s/r should be applied in context with other tools. Else the probability that you'll burn with it is pretty high.
In this thread I illustrated until now(charts etc speaks for themselves) a lot that you can utilize this concept alone and profit.

Anyways,enough babbling.

http://www.fxstreet.com/webinars/sessions/supply--demand-and-odds-enhancers---part-1-foundation-20120604/
http://www.fxstreet.com/webinars/sessions/supply--demand-and-odds-enhancers---part-2-foundation-20120705/
http://www.fxstreet.com/webinars/sessions/supply--demand-and-odds-enhancers---part-3-application-20120810/

Two and a half hours of more quality material with no marketing/selling twists whatsoever,and a deeper touch and more detailed explanation about the s/d concept. (he mentions switch to HTF or break it down to LTF at least 5 times in these)

Enjoy!

 

[Piper]

... not somebody who ran tickets for a Trading firm...

Never saw ICT kickin' ass and taking names

I've sent a message to Sam, maybe he'll decide to show up and express his view.

Cheers,
-P

 

[Ramy3]

" Relative drawdown " is where you need to focus your efforts in trading and the roi will take care of it self.

once you dial that in, just add cars to get more zeros.

Gunner, post up some hard numbers.

s

Yo S,

Have a challenge for your big mouth. Will put up 5k, seeing your previous results that were deleted, You keep 50% of all profit. If the 5k goes down 50% you pay up the loss. All will be setup and recorded via Myfxbook or not. Will keep people updated.

Awaiting reply,

C

 

[Piper]

Just got Seidens response. Sounds like a nice person.

I read most of what is written below. Obviously I don't know all the details of the strategy (Orderblocks) the gentleman talks about below but when he suggests not cutting through candles and "fresh" levels are a flaw, he simply doesn't understand as that is one of the big keys to the supply/demand concept. In short, it's all about the "orders" to buy and sell, demand and supply as you know. I have been in the trading business for many years and like he says, I learned everything by spending time in the real world of trading, not from books. What I see if people tend to try all kinds of strategies and services but at the end, they always come back to supply and demand because that is what causes price to turn and move in any and all markets, always. It is how the markets have always worked. Thanks again for sharing the email. Let me know if I can help in anyway.

Anyways, i think this all settles it now. We got an opinion from the father of both views. You decide.
Enough typing around, time to trade!

Cheers,
-P

 

[Piper]

Yo S,

Have a challenge for your big mouth. Will put up 5k, seeing your previous results that were deleted, You keep 50% of all profit. If the 5k goes down 50% you pay up the loss. All will be setup and recorded via Myfxbook or not. Will keep people updated.

Awaiting reply,

C

:hijack:
Yo R!
If he agrees,I'm ready to be your angel investor on that one. I got the feeling that you are not going to get a trade on this .. 8) :hijack:

-P

 

[Alpha-Bet]

Yo S,

Have a challenge for your big mouth. Will put up 5k, seeing your previous results that were deleted, You keep 50% of all profit. If the 5k goes down 50% you pay up the loss. All will be setup and recorded via Myfxbook or not. Will keep people updated.

Awaiting reply,

C

shop has left gears to concentrate on a private hedge and equity project. he will no longer be posting to any gears threads or answering private messages.

 

[the golden gun]

shop has left gears to concentrate on a private hedge and equity project. he will no longer be posting to any gears threads or answering private messages.

tell him gunner wishes him the best of luck in the coming financial collapse. he should make a killing

 

[Piper]

.. best of luck in the coming financial collapse...

That should be easy... Trade 'em all to zero!!!!!
Long live the fractional lending system...

 

[NKE]

Did not realise ICT was active again
IMO the debate about supply and demand, order blocks, engulfing candles etc is all a bit sterile; what matters is where the orders are; "fresh" supply demand areas, especially on HTF are important areas to be aware of, because when price returns to that area, there is a high probability that price will "reverse"
at the same time, you need to be aware of the need by big institutions for liquidity and where they are likely to find it; my experience is that generally "stop runs" above below balance areas, will usually line up with a key previous HTF SR area - often a HCR LCS line
but you need to fit it together with overall market structure, news, time of day, day of the week etc and deduce from lower timeframe action what is actually happening, which take time and experience
incidentally the best explanation of the combination of supply demand and liquidity is set out in the readthemarket site and videos; but ICT has done the best job that I have seen of combining levels, engulf candles, stop runs, fibs etc etc to make a clear trading plan using these concepts
I use pieces of all of them
Incidentally classic GU buy move on 12 Aug - easy to read and trade - dont know if this is the right place to post that comment - lol

 

[AusDoc]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. Can it be merely language? Supply and demand and resistance and support are pretty much the same concepts, looked at in only slightly different ways. There is no magic. Though of course, you can choose to build belief systems around them just as easily as trading systems, if that's your thing. Unfortunately, when you switch from trading systems to belief systems it can easily become the case that conflicts arise - just turn on the News.

Areas or levels of supply create resistance.

Areas or levels of demand create support.

Ultimately it is all about price action and market dynamics. Here is a brief discussion about those things. It mentions stops and supply and demand but could just as easily use the terms resistance and support.

http://www.orderflowtrading.com/Articles/tabid/392/entryid/15881/A-View-From-the-Trenches.aspx