ICT Forexmas 2014 / Market Maker Series

FTMO Trader Scouting
Golden Bull said:
I think the core issue is more about not publicly made promises that not been delivered consistently. I can list like 5 from the top of my head. And thats not the way a person with integrity should behave. (and i'm not talking about missed release days either)

I don't disagree.... if claims and promises were made about disclosure, then disclosure should happen. But at the same time I've found that when the subject matter is 'money', people do messed up things...

I'd almost rather not know someone's performance vs be fed lies or misrepresentations and incomplete truths. There's also the ego factor, as it seems the greater the ego the more likely they'll misrepresent.

To be clear, that's not commenting on ICT or saying his ego will make him misrepresent things.. What I'm trying to say is, if he displays his performance and it's lackluster at best, or shows some dumb drawdowns, I'd hold way more respect for him than if we only got snapshots of a series of good trades in a row that implies all trades were just as good. I have no ego when it comes to trading, and I expect everyone to be human or have human moments. It doesn't matter to me if a trader I respect messes up and does something stupid, no, what matters is how they fair in the long run and how they correct for their mistakes. Showing humility and showing one's own mistakes would improve my opinion of anyone.

Anyway, there's still a lot of value that can be extracted from sources who don't post their own numbers. And to be quite frank, I don't know many pros who boast about performance.. there's a huge correlation, I find, between people who need others to view them as trading gods, and bullshit.

Thankfully, the types of people who only care about someone's P/L before they'll bother learning from them (the ones who feel they're owed something for breathing that is,) get caught up with the bullshitters and end up taking care of themselves (usually washing out when they can't make trading work for them, or they too must become bullshitters to fit in with their 'chums'.)

A side thought: There's a lot of traders who will perform worse if they think someone's watching.. public MyFXBook accounts for example can have a net negative psychological effect on individuals. We sorta witnessed this with ICT's MyFXBook from about two years ago.. the pressure is just different and an adjustment period is needed. Perhaps he made promises before realizing this about himself, and now has to work on parts of his own trading before he can safely go public again. There's no shame in self development. No one, no matter how many years they've been trading, has mastered every aspect of the game. To expect absolute perfection from someone is silly, and I don't trust people who only come off as if they are the pinnacle of trading skill in every way.
 
Jack, if you don't mind sharing, could you please detail how you control risk in your own trading, and at work(if it's different) ?

ICT has outlined a method of cutting risk after losing, that should allow you to hit a string of losses and not suffer crushing drawdowns. There is some little details to his method though, which I learned later on, and only by digging... such as he won't cut risk in half if the first loss isn't a "full loss". Have never gotten to see this risk-cutting in action though, but the logic behind it does seem sound.

so is that how you control your risk too? He makes it seem like every professional out there is doing this risk cutting thing, and I'm not so sure about that anymore.
 
the golden gun said:
Jack, if you don't mind sharing, could you please detail how you control risk in your own trading, and at work(if it's different) ?

ICT has outlined a method of cutting risk after losing, that should allow you to hit a string of losses and not suffer crushing drawdowns. There is some little details to his method though, which I learned later on, and only by digging... such as he won't cut risk in half if the first loss isn't a "full loss". Have never gotten to see this risk-cutting in action though, but the logic behind it does seem sound.

so is that how you control your risk too? He makes it seem like every professional out there is doing this risk cutting thing, and I'm not so sure about that anymore.

http://fxgears.com/forum/index.php/topic,536.0.html
 
Golden Bull said:
I'm luckily not a buyer, just pointing out the inconsistencies between words and actions here and there,he doesn't owe anyone anything. Until you start bragging about it and making promises. Thats the time when you should put it up,shut it up 'cause you're FOS. Words are cheap. (just my opinion)
not only your opinion golden bull ,you cant keep your word ur worthless having fun watching his twitter feed .
fear of loss ,greed he has them in that mix like the pied piper .
 
Jack said:
(Not defending ICT, but..) The thing is.. you can give the most basic strategy to two different people and get very different results. The results over a sample of traders diverge even more so as the complexity of the system increases. This relates to different personalities, styles, risk tolerances, etc...

Well said, exactly! I miss being able to silently agree via the like button :)

I don't really care what ICT's performance is, because the setups that I've taken from his material obviously work for me. It's almost common sense now, when you look at the market the way he mentions.
 
outthislife said:
Well said, exactly! I miss being able to silently agree via the like button :)

I don't really care what ICT's performance is, because the setups that I've taken from his material obviously work for me. It's almost common sense now, when you look at the market the way he mentions.

Very much agreed about that part. The trading tech that you are using is just a vehicle to aggregate results. There are a 1000 ways to trade and each of them can be right. Its up to the driver to operate the vehicle correctly,not to the manufacturer or hes teacher. But the topic of dissatisfaction here is a bit different. Its more about a lot of talk and no walk.
 
Jack said:
I don't disagree.... if claims and promises were made about disclosure, then disclosure should happen. But at the same time I've found that when the subject matter is 'money', people do messed up things...

I'd almost rather not know someone's performance vs be fed lies or misrepresentations and incomplete truths. There's also the ego factor, as it seems the greater the ego the more likely they'll misrepresent.

To be clear, that's not commenting on ICT or saying his ego will make him misrepresent things.. What I'm trying to say is, if he displays his performance and it's lackluster at best, or shows some dumb drawdowns, I'd hold way more respect for him than if we only got snapshots of a series of good trades in a row that implies all trades were just as good. I have no ego when it comes to trading, and I expect everyone to be human or have human moments. It doesn't matter to me if a trader I respect messes up and does something stupid, no, what matters is how they fair in the long run and how they correct for their mistakes. Showing humility and showing one's own mistakes would improve my opinion of anyone....
There's a lot of traders who will perform worse if they think someone's watching.. public MyFXBook accounts for example can have a net negative psychological effect on individuals. We sorta witnessed this with ICT's MyFXBook from about two years ago.. the pressure is just different and an adjustment period is needed. Perhaps he made promises before realizing this about himself, and now has to work on parts of his own trading before he can safely go public again. There's no shame in self development. No one, no matter how many years they've been trading, has mastered every aspect of the game. To expect absolute perfection from someone is silly, and I don't trust people who only come off as if they are the pinnacle of trading skill in every way...

The pressure from public performance part does not add up with the AOL(90's) and BP past.
 
The 5k to 1mil Account & public MyFXBook was something else. That was several years of ICT being really pissed at people, all boiling up.

I'd have to search back through his YouTube account to see if it's still there, but he did give an update on the "Why" at one point. It also came up, at least twice, in "after sessions" to his Live Sessions during Spring 2014. The short version is he wanted throw off the Leech-type/Nagger-types. (He apparently gets 100+ emails a day, from only the Lord knows who) But he did it in his rather personal style. The first 5ish months he used a Coin-Flip to enter trades. It's kind of hilarious how unbad it went, at times. But he should be done with the account somewhere in Spring/Summer this year. At least working out from the last time he mentioned its value during a live session. (He was trading a lot lighter during the Fall, so it might stretch a little.)
 
Golden Bull said:
The pressure from public performance part does not add up with the AOL(90's) and BP past.

yeah it does, there was no such thing as myfxbook in the 90s and he never shared any live public trading on BP before the million dollar challenge account.

in the end we're either going to see a jaw-dropping myfxbook account worth close to or above $1million or else we're going to "learn a new lesson" about how public trading is not good for us.
 
Just curious, why does it matter? Shouldn't your own performance be your only focus?

Or is non-pit trading a pissing contest?
 
Good morning folks! ;)

I just popped on this morning to see what the latest was among the Gearheads...

Just so the readers are aware, I get somewhat agitated when I am prodded and pushed. I've always been this way, before affluence, with everything. I'm not a conformist. Which makes my teaching expensive. The readers are subjected to long waits and "useless" rants between material releases. Now before you get your britches in a knot and go full bore sourpuss on ICT... please allow me to remind you of something.

I started this Waltz in teaching as a self-serving project. I am interested in the responses, the results, performance and stories of each of you. Despite my carnival like atmosphere at times, this is not really about me. I am killing two birds with one stone. I am satisfying a curiosity in me as a Trader and simple voyeur as well as encapsulate my understandings of Trading over 20 years. I have children I want to provide this insight for. You all are the audience of this project.

I get numerous emails and public torch in hand and pitchfork aiming trolls calling for more of this or that from me. Please take this with ego as far from the point as it can be taken: I don't march to your drum. In fact it incites more delays just to irritate those parties. I'm in no hurry as you have possibly noticed of the years. I have no deadline. I have no marketing timeline to adhere to. This is where most of the detractors stumble. I will not be manipulated into doing something before I am willing. Stubborn and one way, that's always been me.

It's funny to read things like "put up or shut up" from Golden Bullshit. The fact that folks like this take the time to post things like that shows inward weaknesses. ICT doesn't have to put up anything. I put up enough. Where did I say I must prove to you anything? I elect to show results of trades both live and simulated as a record. If I have taken a loss, I will and would show you. I do not trade a lot. I trade very little actually... this is why my results are as good as I claim.

That is where the struggle begins with you, the reader, trying to trade more than ICT does. I have experience, something I can't teach, to know which setups I elect to take. Some are better than others... and some I am incorrect on. I have the understanding as a Mentor and many years in interfacing with pupils both via the internet and face to face; to know my results are not helpful to the pupil. It is merely a curiosity within those who "must know". It doesn't help you Trade my methods better. In fact, it will give you a false sense of security as my results are based on over two decades and just because I do it... does in no way guarantee you or anyone else will likewise. Sorry, but that's just the Truth.

Now to show how I deal with losses in a MyFxBook environment I will trade more frequently than I actually do. Not for a long time, but for a month or two. I will undoubtedly take a loss. I will mitigate that loss as I teach should it manifest. I will do this at my timing and choice. When I sunk the babypips Fxbook I did so to scare those wanting to mimic me and my trades. You can feel like a smartass and post what you want concerning why you think or believe the reasons were behind it. I can assure you it was not lack of ability nor was it stage-fright. I manage over 200 million dollars in fund, do you think I am losing sleep over a few thousand dollars in a retail account? Again, those who believe that clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

I have no future service. I scared, hopefully, those who hold to that idea. This is not about ICT... it's about everyone but ICT.

Have fun kiddies 8)
 
InnerCircleTrader said:
Now to show how I deal with losses in a MyFxBook environment I will trade more frequently than I actually do. Not for a long time, but for a month or two.

Don't feed the trolls..
 
InnerCircleTrader said:
It's funny to read things like "put up or shut up" from Golden Bullshit. The fact that folks like this take the time to post things like that shows inward weaknesses. ICT doesn't have to put up anything. ...

Really? i've posted enough setups for the last year, in real time(at the moment of entry) and with the result(maybe without video produtction,but they still valid :p ) MT4 picz(yea yea, photoshop in realtime). I can link em all up here. 2 training accounts 300% up each week twice since 2015 started(guess for what am i training for..?). I can stand by anything i'm saying,Mr.ICT. So you say explicitly that your words and promises mean nothing to you. That would point to a case of a certain lack of integrity just like your deleted threads. I rest my case.
I would say that put up or stfu would mean that i'm able to stand by everything that i'm stating. What about you....?
Inward weakness i would describe as all talk and no walk. But thats just me.. ;)
On 2nd thought about the weakness:
Anytime, anywhere, anymarket. Including realtime!
Gotta luv' you guys...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102356275
Have fun too OPM kiddie 8)
Cheers,
-GB
 
Golden Bull said:
Really? i've posted enough setups for the last year, in real time(at the moment of entry) and with the result(maybe without video produtction,but they still valid :p ) MT4 picz(yea yea, photoshop in realtime). I can link em all up here. 2 training accounts 300% up each week twice since 2015 started(guess for what am i training for..?). I can stand by anything i'm saying,Mr.ICT. So you say explicitly that your words and promises mean nothing to you. That would point to a case of a certain lack of integrity just like your deleted threads. I rest my case.
I would say that put up or stfu would mean that i'm able to stand by everything that i'm stating. What about you....?
About the weakness:
Anytime, anywhere, anymarket. Including realtime!
Gotta luv' you OPM guys...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102356275 8)
Cheers,
-GB


The evidence that you are the one without integrity speaks volumes. You asking for your posts to be removed from this forum only to reinvent yourself is a farce. You and your alter-ego "Shopster" can start a thread with a MyFxBook linked, I [with your invitation] will link a live account. Talking about it... is not the same as doing it... right?

I don't hide behind fiction stories and nicknames... my name is known in the industry. BTW, use a spellchecker next time Shopster, I mean Piper, I mean GoldenBull. lol J.O.K.E.R

Come get some... 8)
 
Smh. Armies of high paid financiers are staring down at us from the tallest towers in every city, and this is our collective strategy? To tear each other apart in this way? "Haters gone hate". To the rest of us, lets just keep focused on the task at hand. $5 trillion is bouncing around out there daily and its your job to catch some of it. If everyone reading this became a billionaire this
year, nobody would blink an eye. The brokers would just take your side of the trade and make $3 billion to your $1 billion. Think about that and quit bitchin.
 
The mention of the 1st name is even points to more lack of integrity. Would have liked to play this between you and me, without dragging in and down other not involved parties, but its ok Mr Humble. We can play, i'm game. As long as you're not going to chicken out in the middle with excuses of mother in law in hospital and this kind of stuff.:p
BTW about the spelling Mr Known in the industry,i only speak 4 languages(sure you can do better then that ;) ) and my native is not English so i have an occasional misplace of words. Anyways, enough hiding behind avatars.
 
Can we make the pissing contest stop please? :/ I see little benefit to be had.
 
To make things clear:

Golden Bull and Shopster / Shop / S are not the same person. I can verify this in many ways.

However, Golden Bull and Piper are the same. I'm ok with this since Piper asked me to nuke his old account so he couldn't go back to Piper if he wanted to.
 
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